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Failure to Disrupt Book Club - Shared screen with speaker view
Farid Aboharb
34:48
Hey All, my name is Farid, I'm an MD/PhD Student in NYC and I want to learn more about EdTech, I've taught recitations/tutored during Undergrad and hope to improve medical education in the future
Ahmad Bashaireh
35:51
Ahmad Bashaireh, Amman, JordanAssistant Professor, Electrical Engineering
Susan Jones
36:04
We're arriving :)
Pat Hsieh
37:28
Pat Hsieh, Learning Technology Consultant, Texas A&M Univ.
Jiri Malik
39:08
Hello, I'm Jiri Malik, a PhD student from Czech Republic.
Miroslawa Buchholtz
39:37
Miroslawa Buchholtz, Nicolaus Copernicus University, Poland, literary studies, quality assurance in higher education
marion cunningham
40:12
Hi! Marion Cunningham, MIT Program in Art, Culture and Technology
Les Foltos
40:18
Les Foltos, peer coaching. Mill Creek WA
Radu Stochita
40:30
Radu Stochita from Bowdoin College, but tuning in from Romania currently :)
JAN SAGE
40:48
Jan Sage, Senior Learning Experience Designer, greater Boston area
Christopher Buttimer
41:02
Greetings from Melrose, MA. Sunny. I work as a post-doc researcher with Justin in the Teaching Systems Lab
Bruce Hecht
41:02
Hello , greetings from Cambridge MA
Kevin Miklasz
41:04
Kevin Miklasz, NYC, Sunny, VP Data and Prototyping at BrainPOP
Susan Jones
41:19
Sue Jones, I work w/ community college students who get stuck on "adaptive learning" programs.
Justin Reich
41:35
Hi Megan!
Justin Reich
41:49
And hi everyone!
Brian Douglas
41:51
Hi everyone, Brian Douglas (control theory educator) from sunny Seattle.
Rafael Scapin
41:52
Rafael Scapin, Coordinator of Ed Tech at Dawson College, Montreal (Canada)
Angela Elkordy
41:56
Hi, everyone! I'm Angela Elkordy, Assist. Prof. of Learning Sciences, based in Chicago. Living in Ann Arbor where it is sunny currently
Paul Liu
41:58
Hi. I'm Paul, software engineer, recent graduate of the CMU METALS program
Steve Carson
42:04
Hi all. Steve Carson from MIT J-WEL
Lucy Chen
42:11
Hello from Lucy! Currently at Harvard ed School, previously at Minerva and Springboard. https://www.linkedin.com/in/lucybluecie/
Julian Wong
42:12
howdy from San Jose, California. I'm Julian, focused on prototyping a new school based on the pillars of well-being, ecological consciousness and civics.
Kathi Fletcher
42:23
Kathi Fletcher: at OpenStax / Rice University - Technology Director - we build open textbooks and tools to learn from them from simple notes taking to full homework systems with algorithmic support. In Houston - the weather is gorgeous for Houston - warm but not hot.
Angela Elkordy
43:41
Kathi, that sounds fascinating!
Susan Jones
44:18
Kathi
Bridget McGraw
44:24
We need a hashtag! #SlightlyLessDumb
Susan Jones
44:42
Kathi Fletcher -- I am also highly interested in the open community and developing homework system.s
Cristina Heffernan
45:46
Open Stax is great- We use open middle school OER
Susan Jones
46:01
I remember working with the Carnegie Mathia thing just playing with it and … it was pretty disappointing.
Susan Jones
46:51
If it were #OER then oh, when they had that word problem about a woman riding at 12 mph in the Tour de France... I could edit that so it had something to do with the real world ;0
Kathi Fletcher
48:17
@Angela @Susan Feel free to drop me a line (kef@rice.edu). And Christina - great to hear!
JAN SAGE
48:44
Jan Sage, Senior Learning Experience Designer, greater Boston area
JAN SAGE
50:07
The social learning component seems to be so much more relevant to K-12 than to adult professional development learning.
Shayan Doroudi
50:14
Susan: OpenCurriculum is focused on adapting and aligning open curricular resources to local standards and needs (so e.g., word problems are tailored to make sense in the local context!)
Shayan Doroudi
50:22
Susan: OpenCurriculum is focused on adapting and aligning open curricular resources to local standards and needs (so e.g., word problems are tailored to make sense in the local context!)
Susan Jones
50:56
Oh, my, the perspective of "at your own pace" means drop out... YES. Here at this community college, that's *exactly* what happens with our "open entry, pace yourself"
An Nguyen
52:50
I would argue that "at your own pace" needs to be met with support from the educational institution to ensure that the pace being set by the student is reasonable for their personalized situation.
Susan Jones
53:07
… but do we need to be doing the same content in the same place to build community? "Low floor- High Ceiling" ;)
marion cunningham
53:11
Q: There seems to be a persistent desire for ed tech to infuse information into students despite the feedback about its inconsistent success. Why do you think educators persist in wanting tech to have a more dominant role in education, especially since teachers often complain about the lack of support to implement the systems successfully, contributing to the inconsistency?
JAN SAGE
53:53
Learning communities are important to a university program, not so much to masters-level professional development, technical learning, certifications, etc. How do we integrate the value of social learning into self-directed learning products?
Sylvia Gholson
54:46
Well in light of building community in the US, we surely have failed considering the state of the nation. So are you talking about generally homogeneous clientele?
Susan Jones
55:19
I'll be helping a student later today with ALEKS... working on counting strategies … oops, need to bug out now 'cause email tells me another student's there :)
Kathi Fletcher
57:00
I think even adults drop out of self-paced, or online—algorithm-paced stuff at a high rate. Transactional things like installing your dishwasher are easier - bite sized learning - very clearly connected to something with inherent value/interest to the learner.
Melissa Swan
58:02
To make it easier for everyone to see what the platform is about, here is the link to ASSISTments: https://new.assistments.org/
Justin Reich
58:17
Thanks Melissa!
JAN SAGE
58:22
@Sylvia - I’m seeing the same demographics that the author pointed to in the MOOC chapter. So yes, pretty homogeneous.
Radu Stochita
59:22
That is a smart comment, because as a student during COVID, whenever I get something wrong I do not understand if I am the only one that does not get the concept or if others have the issue as well. I think it can lead to a lot of questions with regards to self-esteem and self-worth and maybe even over-working?
Kathi Fletcher
01:00:37
That is really interesting - that students don’t get upset by the comparison reports. I would definitely have been wondering about the student who gets a problem wrong that most people get right.
Lourdes Martin
01:00:58
Could you give us an example of a K12 school that is using really effectively these intelligent tutoring systems?
Steve Carson
01:01:53
I think the teachers our district are going to be put off because they are being forced to use technology in bad ways, eg having to teach in class and Zoom populations simultaneously.
Michael Jacknis
01:02:08
do these automated tools make it more difficult to present content in different ways or to catch errors in the answer key. with siloed participation, would bugs in the content fester
Shayan Doroudi
01:02:41
I understand why ASSISTments is clumped together with intelligent tutoring systems (historically and from the teacher’s perspective), but I don’t see it as algorithm guided instruction. In a sense, would it be better classified as teacher-guided learning at scale?
Kevin Miklasz
01:02:44
@kathi’s comment- that sort of competitive feedback mechanism seems pretty fixed-mindset inducing and demotivation. Has anyone studied whether the feedback tools on assessments foster fixed or growth mindsets?
Justin Reich
01:03:32
I think that’s fair, and a good question @Shayan…
Michael Jacknis
01:03:56
do these automated tools make it more difficult to present content in different ways or to catch errors in the answer key. with siloed participation, would bugs in the content fester
Cristina Heffernan
01:05:21
Agreed
Sylvia Gholson
01:06:10
Are there studies of more heterogeneous groups trying to apply these technologies? Seems like it might help make development of edtech more robust.
Kathi Fletcher
01:10:49
OpenStax definitely found that the textbooks needed to replicate what faculty were used to, and so, like Assistments, when we build tools we take that same philosophy of working within standard practice. I really like the ‘tinkerers’ term here.
Justin Reich
01:12:16
I definitely see the family resemblance @Kathi :)
Kathi Fletcher
01:12:27
@Michael - can you give an example about why tools might allow errors to persist longer?
Melissa Swan
01:14:52
@Michael Teachers (If I understood your statement correctly): The platform seems to make it easier to catch textbook errors in that if multiple students (or on a more granular level, a single student) get(s) a problem incorrect the teacher can see what the answers were, how long the students spent on the questions, if they asked for help, etc. Educators can course correct as needed.
Michael Jacknis
01:15:04
if people are in a physical room, and a bad question or lesson is delivered, the crowd will detect the uncomfortable body language and increase confidence in objecting....
Michael Jacknis
01:15:50
whereas, online platforms squelch the backchannel communication of body language or uncomfortable tapping or grumbling
Michael Jacknis
01:16:02
so each individual is siloed
Kathi Fletcher
01:16:21
One of the things that we have had success with is to have Master Teachers be a part of a Professional Learning Community with teachers integrating technology. And it definitely breaks out of just an ed-tech support — it is about exchanging really wonderful examples and experiments, and problem solving together. Having some coaches/mentors/master’s teachers that are paid, has a cost, but is less than 1-1.
Bridget McGraw
01:16:23
How to you sell the “tradeoff” to administrators?
Michael Jacknis
01:16:24
and struggles in silence as they are each individually gaslighted by
Michael Roark
01:16:52
A "like" to Susan's comment - ALEKS was a godsend when I implemented it in an online diverse adult remedial education setting: Tech + Radically-different understand of the teacher role (coach not lecturer)
Michael Jacknis
01:16:55
.... gaslighted by the malformed item
Kathi Fletcher
01:18:30
Ah - @Michael - that could be an interesting question - do students that encounter a mistake in an automated system (versus a mistake in grading on their paper homework, or the answers in the back o the book) persist longer in a misunderstanding.
Michael Jacknis
01:18:35
this could be mitigated if each item or concept each individually has a real time rating tag or chat feature that connects with another human focused on that item in that moment
Kathi Fletcher
01:18:54
*interesting research question* : point up :
Michael Jacknis
01:19:36
@Kathi I have no proof but I feel like users suffer in silence
Melissa Swan
01:19:49
@Michael Interesting point! Why do you think that in a classroom the body language wouldn't be perceivable with the use of this (or any) platform. In the world of COVID, it seems platforms like this because the alternative would be an educator lacking the data they need to help their students thrive. The tagging comment is an interesting concept.
Michael Jacknis
01:20:03
wait I do have proof:
Kathi Fletcher
01:20:50
One anecdotal piece of information from my offspring — students that don’t normally speak up sometimes use chat to speak up. — I think body language could go either way - give you confidence to ask a question - or more fear.
Michael Jacknis
01:22:00
we are using a commercial reading curriculum that the teachers don't like. I found factual and conceptual errors which festered. the company didn't care
Michael Jacknis
01:22:13
they heavily market
Michael Jacknis
01:22:25
the public schools bite
Shayan Doroudi
01:22:30
@Kathi, I’ve heard that from my undergraduates too—some that would normally be too shy to participate in class, are more likely to participate in chat
Michael Jacknis
01:22:33
the kids lose
Michael Jacknis
01:24:04
but chat squelches the body language. it would be ok if there was a backchannel or background audio link, with speakers and microphone behind the students, linking them with comfort noise or room tone so to speak.
Michael Jacknis
01:24:16
if you shift in your chair that will be heard!
Michael Jacknis
01:24:37
the subtle groans... the pheromones...
Michael Jacknis
01:25:12
the cues of concern that pervade a physical space
Michael Jacknis
01:26:47
okay so after the pandemic, put students back in the lecture hall with phones to chat in real time. I'd be okay with that
Shayan Doroudi
01:26:56
I use https://gather.town/ to give my class (undergraduate) more of a social presence. Let’s see if it works
Kevin Miklasz
01:27:40
Question- The book is titled Failure to Disrupt. We’ve spent most of this hour talking about how great ASSISTments is. Is ASSISTments actually disrupting our approach in any way? Or is it successful because it’s not disruptive?
Abdulazeez Mohammed Salim
01:28:07
+1
Neil Thawani
01:30:09
@Shayan We used gather.town as a grad cohort once or twice. It was ok, but the great thing was weekly game nights or breakout rooms with buffer time in class so we could touch base and just chat with each other.
JAN SAGE
01:30:31
@Shayan - what are the affordances of GatherTown that are different from zoom video conferencing?
Melissa Swan
01:30:48
@Michael, You raise good points that focus on the education of whole child but this platform is focused on helping the teacher provide the best learning for their class. Maybe the research can help answer this better than I can in a post. https://new.assistments.org/research?2581f8c5_page=6@Kevin The disruption appears to be to the traditional classroom. The one where kids get lost and the teacher has no way of knowing.
Cristina Heffernan
01:31:11
nice
Shayan Doroudi
01:31:21
@Neil, nice! That does seem like one of the advantages
Neil Thawani
01:32:05
@Shayan Yeah, especially in this time - just having some idle time to chat was really helpful for staying motivated in our projects course. It was great.
Shayan Doroudi
01:33:00
@Jan, it provides a “physical space” on top of video conferencing, so people can talk to people who are close to them. I think it can be useful for group discussions and providing students the opportunity to chat with their friends
JAN SAGE
01:34:01
Thanks, Shayan. I’ll investigate.
Neil Thawani
01:35:08
Thank you both for presenting today!
An Nguyen
01:35:09
Thank you panelists!
Kevin Miklasz
01:35:24
Thank you!
Radu Stochita
01:35:26
Thank you so much ! It is the right way to start the week!
INES SILVIA VITORINO SAMPAIO
01:35:27
Thank you all!
Miroslawa Buchholtz
01:35:33
Thank you!
Avron Barr
01:35:38
Thank you.
Melissa Swan
01:35:41
Thank you!
Shayan Doroudi
01:35:42
Thanks Justin, Neil, and Cristina!
JAN SAGE
01:35:46
Thanks all.
Laura Larke
01:35:50
Thanks, everyone!